KBK: Hello, hello, everyone. We are so fortunate to be here with Kristine Nagel from your impact house. She is an incredible wealth of knowledge when it comes to sustainability, storytelling, and how to weave it all into your business. So that you can be sharing that story with the right people. She has been working in sustainability for years. And so in a number of different companies. And so we are so fortunate to have her here today to be sharing her knowledge.
KBK: So what exactly is a sustainability advisor? And why do businesses need one?
KN: I was wondering how to call myself when I established my business approximately half a year ago. And the name came to me as that was basically what I was doing. I was advising fast growing company CEOs and founders as they were going through this journey of understanding how to actually tackle the topic of sustainability. People I've worked with are CEOs or founders, and they've spent evenings after evenings after evenings on Google trying to figure out what is sustainability? How does it differ from corporate social responsibility? Where do you even start and after like weeks of taking extra load on global research, they realize that they still don't really understand so that's why they need someone to advise on how to actually tackle this subject.
KBK: How did your work in sustainability start? What made you want to go out on your own?
KN: I previously was working for Printful. It's now officially a unicorn company. They are a global company working all across the world. And I have the wonderful opportunity to help them define their sustainability strategy and implement it across all the facilities, all the locations, and also shape their communication strategy and actually execute. So that was an insane experience, packed in a very short amount of time. It was approximately two years that I spent on the team there. And during that time, I figured that if I'm already starting to receive so many questions from my friends, who are company founders and people in the business industry about the subject, then maybe there is an opportunity to build something from that ground.
KBK: I love that. Yeah, you just thought, hey, I'm doing this, I might as well be doing it for myself is that kind of how you how you saw it. So what are some of the top trends in sustainability you're noticing these days, and how are brands finding ways to incorporate these trends into their businesses?
KN: First of all, I’m always very wary of putting in one sentence the word trend and sustainability. Sustainability is not the trend, and it should not be treated [like a] trend, it is the future of the normal business. But of course, there are trends within the field that are happening, like… carbon neutrality. And that is becoming increasingly more important. For any company who is going about 500 employees, especially in Europe, there are regulations changing, there are new things coming in. So larger enterprises will start to need to keep score of how much they are using are three sources (of emissions). And this is becoming a very noticeable thing across many companies. But of course, when we're talking about smaller brands, we see more and more green initiatives. Some are looking at eco friendly packaging, some are offering more eco friendly products. And when we're talking about products, I think there's also a lot of innovation happening in that department too. There is kind of more understanding the product should last longer, that it should serve you…you should be able to repair it that there should be …the closed loop at the end of the cycle.
KBK: Just yesterday on a phone call I said just that, that sustainability is not a trend. It is here to stay it is not going away. And I am seeing the same things in terms of carbon neutrality. That's definitely something that's becoming more and more popular.
Why do you think working with these high level executives is so important for sustainability and business?
KN: For sustainability, to become something really meaningful for a company, there has to be a buyer, for the founding team and the management team. If you really want to move things forward, you will need resources, you'll need time, you'll need money as well, not all the projects that you're going to start are gonna be saving money. There are many, of course, but not all of them. And if you don't have that, you'll not get very far. And there is a very big risk for sustainability to be this just this passion project of one employee or couple of employees, just collaborating on weekends or after hours. And that is great. That is of course, sometimes that is the only way how to get the ball rolling. And that is necessary. But there is a risk that in case that one employee or those couple of employees are going to be having some other priorities in their personal life, or they'll have a lot of work projects that they really have to deliver, then they will not be able to really move sustainability to that point where they will get that management buy in.
KBK: Yeah, sustainability really does need to have executive buy in for to really take off because, otherwise it ends up being a passion project for a couple of employees which is great, but it's not sustainable. The business from the top down needs to say this is a priority to the company. I think that that's great that you're targeting the C suite for this, this type of buying because otherwise it really just fizzles out. I've seen that so many times with companies.
KN: Yeah, and if you don't really have the buy in from the CEO or the founding team, then everything that that sustainability team does, doesn't really seem something that you can fully trust [or] that it is really important for the company. If there is a strong commitment from the CEO that this is important, then I have the option to actually voice my opinion and share my ideas on the subject and really make the change happen in many departments.
KBK: So you also help brands leverage their sustainability story to work with investors, which I think is really awesome. So what are investors looking for? And do you see this being a key pillar for brands looking for funding in the future?
KN: Yeah, actually, one of the key reasons I have a business is because company founders sometimes encounter questions about sustainability from investors. And that is the point where they have to start thinking about it. Once their investor is asking,” What do you know about sustainability?” And, “What is your strategy?” Or “What are you going to do about it?” This really becomes an important subject, because you need the fundraising, you need the next fundraising funding round. And then it becomes a very good business reason to do something about it. And what, there are different kinds of investors, of course, and some of the investors are really looking at companies whose main business goal is to solve one of the Sustainable Development Goals. For example, that would be a company who is providing drinking water in countries in third world countries where it's currently not accessible. That company obviously is doing good for the planet. Maybe we don't even need to account its carbon footprint, because, yes, people need drinking water everywhere. No discussion about that. And then there are the other kinds of investors who…[are] continuing to invest in normal kinds of companies. And then they are trying to shift their focus to become more sustainable through measuring and tracking ESG. ESG is basically environmental, social and governance performance. And these are the majority of investors that are currently in the tech industry seen. So when you're talking to them, you have to show some kind of action plan, what are you going to do? Are you going to start measuring your carbon footprint? Maybe. Or you're going to do certain things to really become [a] better employer? Or create a new service or product that really solves a problem that you were not really thinking about before, but now you can.
KBK: Okay, so just just so that I understand, I find this super interesting that you've broken it down. So there's the one business that, you know, is upfront about their mission, and it links to say an SDG. So that's business type number one. And the other business type is one that their mission is, let's say, use Printful, for example, is to make made to order for entrepreneurs easier. It's not to sell T shirts and build wells. So they're not necessarily a social enterprise, by definition, but they are attempting to be a better business for the planet and for people. So do you think when we think about the SDGs as a communication tool, are you seeing that investors really understand what the SDGs are and if a business is coming to them and explaining their impact using this lens, is it landing with investors? Are they picking up and speaking that language as well?
KN: Depends very much on the investor. There are some that are fluent in SDGs that have based their whole investment thesis around this. And they truly believe that the biggest opportunity lies in solving the world's biggest problems. However, there are many, many investors who are really not that well versed in the subject, which is fair. For example, early stage investors who are looking mostly at the business case, very often might not well even be aware of the subject. But those investors who are interested in companies doing good and who care about sustainability, those investors would usually ask companies to have some proof to their claims. They will ask companies to share some data, share some insights about what they're actually doing. Some investors would ask companies to start reporting [on] sustainability as part of their quarterly or yearly financial report.
KBK: Is there a single language that investors are speaking that maybe more sustainable brands should be thinking about?
KN:Yeah, it's, it's a bit of a mess at the moment. So there are two parts to communicating this, there is the investor facing side, which is part of the financial report, and based on the ESG framework (country and industry specific), which would be basically an Excel spreadsheet with a lot of data in there. And that's obviously not something that you and me as a consumer would look up, or look into, or even understand what this actually means. And then there is the consumer facing part, the story, the soul of it. And some investors care about [all of it], but some just look at the financial part of it.
KBK: Yeah, that's fair, they're investors. I love how your website states 80% of customers don't believe sustainability claims companies make that is quite the statement. So time and time again. I mean, I also see brands making vague statements, and they think it's good enough. But what kind of information are consumers craving? To build trust with with a brand?
KN: We have been receiving greenwashing messages for years and years. It's sometimes even hard to understand what is the truth when you're working in the field. And it is even more confusing for the Average Joe who is buying milk in a grocery store. So what could really build more trust is, of course, having one system for all but that's a moonshot goal . What I think would really be useful for any brand to note is first, to always make sure that there is a link of reference for consumer to go and check the full story… there is somewhere I can find more information about it and do my own fact checking. Because if you just say a claim and there [are] no backup facts [or] data information, then there is no absolutely no reason for me to believe because I have been lied to for such a long time. So that is the number one thing. And yeah, having it accessible.
KBK: What brands are sharing their impact story well, and maybe give us some examples of mistakes that you commonly see of brands, really doing all the things that you said not to do?
KN: Sure, yeah, of course, I want to share a couple of examples from tech industry because that's where I am working, working most. The first example I wanted to mention was a company called Trafi. It is founded in 2007. Their software is powering [the] world's largest largest mobility as a service network in Berlin. Their technology is really something unique.Their homepage states that they are building connected mobility solutions that help people, cities, and companies move towards a more balanced and sustainable future. So basically, they not only increase the efficiency of how…cities are run, but they also increase the sustainability of the cities. And they figured that out, and they reframed the way that they're positioning their company, because that is way more attractive. And not only that, but they also recently became carbon neutral. And they launched their own website, like their own sustainability page where they elaborate on their journey: what is their strategy, what are they in the progress of doing, what are going to be the next steps, and the clarity and insight out of that. That is really outstanding.
KBK: Well, Kristine, thank you. It has been such a treat to have you here. I really appreciate all the the knowledge that you've been able to share today.